2006 Deer season.....Permit vs. lease

[STAKK]

What do you hunters want Brimstone to do??[/b]

[JM]

Permit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel that leasing areas will only cause confusion and conflict.  Keep it like Windrock - all areas open.  

People will have a hard time determining what areas are leased and what areas are open to hunt.  Not everyone knows how to properly read a map and use GPS if those areas are marked on maps.  Who wants to spend money on leasing property to hunt and have a group of 10 atv's come riding through your hunting area or people hiking or riding horses on it.  What's the use if all your going to accomplish by leasing the property is to only keep other hunters out of the area.  If none of the leasers were present at the property and there will be no gates to keep other hunters out, it could be a free for all by other hunters.

I know some of the locals in the area, they won't comply with the rules, especially a lease system.  They have been using that land for years and nothing will change them.

[STAKK]

Permit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel that leasing areas will only cause confusion and conflict.  Keep it like Windrock - all areas open.  

People will have a hard time determining what areas are leased and what areas are open to hunt.  Not everyone knows how to properly read a map and use GPS if those areas are marked on maps.  Who wants to spend money on leasing property to hunt and have a group of 10 atv's come riding through your hunting area or people hiking or riding horses on it.  What's the use if all your going to accomplish by leasing the property is to only keep other hunters out of the area.  If none of the leasers were present at the property and there will be no gates to keep other hunters out, it could be a free for all by other hunters.

I know some of the locals in the area, they won't comply with the rules, especially a lease system.  They have been using that land for years and nothing will change them.

         Thanks for your comment, and it will be viewed and taken seriously........However JM, whatever the hunting committee decides to do, (lease or permit) the locals need to understand and RESPECT whatever decision is made.......those that won't comply with the rules will be asked to leave and not return to the property, We must all understand, just because we have used that land for years does not mean we had a right to do so....If a person does not possess a written permission from a landowner that person is trespassing, no matter if there aren't any signs or not, the Brimstone land is private property and the Brimstone officials want to get along with everyone and will do everything possible to do so, however they will not tolerate abuse or attitudes of, " I'll do whatever the heck I want!".....people taking that attitude and breaking any rules will be warned, and if that doesn't work, they will be arrested and prosecuted, Brimstone LLC is on the side of the people and want the people's support, this place is for the PEOPLE.....But, troublemakers won't, and can't be tolerated.......They want the people to have a place for years to come, and need the support of the people to make this thing work, if the people don't cooperate, then We will ALL lose Brimstone permanantly.........Stakk

[Whitetail hunter 4 life]

Permits 4 sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!......easier and cheaper than leasing. Plus leasing might cause trouble. But Permits are great just keep them cheap and I'll keep coming back for more!

[Anonymous]

Permit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I feel that leasing areas will only cause confusion and conflict.  Keep it like Windrock - all areas open.  

People will have a hard time determining what areas are leased and what areas are open to hunt.  Not everyone knows how to properly read a map and use GPS if those areas are marked on maps.  Who wants to spend money on leasing property to hunt and have a group of 10 atv's come riding through your hunting area or people hiking or riding horses on it.  What's the use if all your going to accomplish by leasing the property is to only keep other hunters out of the area.  If none of the leasers were present at the property and there will be no gates to keep other hunters out, it could be a free for all by other hunters.

I know some of the locals in the area, they won't comply with the rules, especially a lease system.  They have been using that land for years and nothing will change them.

         Thanks for your comment, and it will be viewed and taken seriously........However JM, whatever the hunting committee decides to do, (lease or permit) the locals need to understand and RESPECT whatever decision is made.......those that won't comply with the rules will be asked to leave and not return to the property, We must all understand, just because we have used that land for years does not mean we had a right to do so....If a person does not possess a written permission from a landowner that person is trespassing, no matter if there aren't any signs or not, the Brimstone land is private property and the Brimstone officials want to get along with everyone and will do everything possible to do so, however they will not tolerate abuse or attitudes of, " I'll do whatever the heck I want!".....people taking that attitude and breaking any rules will be warned, and if that doesn't work, they will be arrested and prosecuted, Brimstone LLC is on the side of the people and want the people's support, this place is for the PEOPLE.....But, troublemakers won't, and can't be tolerated.......They want the people to have a place for years to come, and need the support of the people to make this thing work, if the people don't cooperate, then We will ALL lose Brimstone permanantly.........Stakk

Me and my cousin was just wandering want did you mean by saying "then We will ALL lose Brimstone permanantly.........Stakk".....just curious?

[STAKK]

Quote:::: "We will all lose Brimstone forever if this don't work out".......The Brimstone land company sold the land a few years ago.......GMO out of Boston Mass. bought it for around 25 million ( that was the asking price) being out of the hands of the locals( Brimstone land company), we were going to see the area closed to public use eventually.....the area was being leased and sub-leased to the logging company's, gas company's, and other agency's.......they would have the authority and financial means to block you/me from coming on the property.......if you did find a way on, you would be arrested and prosecuted.......Now enter some local men from Scott county, after the Brimstone land company sold to GMO these local men approached GMO about this plan..."using Brimstone for recreational purposes along with timber, gas, oil etc......it was a plan that would hopefully keep the area open to the public and also show GMO that recreational use can be as beneficial as the other ventures on the mountain.....GMO agreed and a 20 year lease was agreed upon for recreational use (ATV's, off roading, Hunting, camping,etc) so we all can keep enjoying the Brimstone mountains for years to come, as we have been doing, however a 20 year lease is not free, and it is up to us ( the one's who love this mountain and want to keep it) it's up to us to support Brimstone recreation LLC by buying a permit to help keep this thing alive and going, if it doesn't, then it can be sub-leased by other  company's and they would then have the right to deny us access to the property.......Aaron Thompson and Mark Love should be "Thanked very much" for stepping up and doing this for all of us, and they know I appreciate them for it......what they need is ALL OF YOU to tell them you appreciate them also for keeping the mountain from being shut off to us.......Folks, it's like this....when Brimstone land company sold out...THINGS CHANGED RIGHT THEN, as far as us being able to "use" the land like we have done in the past, we wasn't going to be able to go up there "scott free" anymore, it was only a matter of time before the logging,gas, etc controlled the whole thing, now with Brimstone recreation being formed we have a great opportunity to keep enjoying Brimstone for years to come.........

[sgt.jt]

if you lease the whole area you will have problems, no hunter wants to lease hunting land and then have atv's on it all year before hunting season if it is a recreation area you just about have to have permits insteed of leases. maybe set aside so much for a lease and draw for it ? just so long as there are good restrictions to manage the deer and people to inforce them.

[Garrett]

My vote is for permits. I see the benefits of both leasing and permits, so I'm sure that whichever way the committee decides to go will be fine. But, personally, I look forward to being able to purchase a permit this spring and still be able to chase turkeys all over Brimstone without being bound to a certain area. If there's a gobbling turkey across the hollow, I like knowing I can go to it, whereas if I were hunting on a lease, that might not be possible. Also, even though the leases will be cheap in comparison with what is going on elsewhere in the state, I'm sure there will be a lot of hunters in Scott County who cannot afford a lease, but may be able to afford a permit. Also, there are going to be more interested hunters than there is land to lease, I'm sure, and by doing it on a permit basis, you have the opportunity to allow more hunters to use the area.

On the other hand, if it is done on a lease basis, you're going to have people who are going to want to make sure that unauthorized hunters aren't sneaking onto their lease, so there will be more "eyes" to help ensure folks are abiding by the rules, and folks who are leasing are probably going to be willing to sink money, time and effort into planting food plots, which helps all the wildlife for everyone.

So, like I said, I see the benefits to both and I'm not sure that Brimstone Recreation can go wrong by choosing one or the other, but I'm hoping for permits myself. :wink:

[STAKK]

thanks for the comments guys....keep 'em coming......

[STAKK]

:?:

[Jaybee]

OK, so I'm not a hunter - I'm strictly an ATV rider type.  So I can't really comment on how to regulate hunting on Brimstone.

But I will say this:  Since a common concern in this thread is having a hunt ruined by a raging horde of ATV's then why not set aside at least a few weeks and weekends during hunting season and make them hunting only times?  Simple enough to set up - Everyone on Brimstone land should already have an access card.  During these "hunting only" periods you'll need whatever kind of hunting stamp you want to use to validate your Brimstone membership, without the hunting stamp you can't get in.  Basically meaning that you have two types of memebership - ATV access for everyone and ATV plus hunting access for hunters only.

Speaking as an ATV rider I will not mind giving up some Brimstone riding time as long as:

1. Keep it reasonable - maybe four to six weeks total scattered throughout the seasons.
2. Set up the hunting only dates in advance and publicize those dates.  That will give ATV riders the heads-up to go ride somewhere else.
3. Make some kind of effort to schedule hunting-only times when there is not a big game hunt scheduled on other nearby riding areas (RB)

Just like hunters don't want to have their day ruined by a noisy ATV, many ATVers really don't want to piss off a hunter.

Just a thought.

[STAKK]

OK, so I'm not a hunter - I'm strictly an ATV rider type.  So I can't really comment on how to regulate hunting on Brimstone.

But I will say this:  Since a common concern in this thread is having a hunt ruined by a raging horde of ATV's then why not set aside at least a few weeks and weekends during hunting season and make them hunting only times?  Simple enough to set up - Everyone on Brimstone land should already have an access card.  During these "hunting only" periods you'll need whatever kind of hunting stamp you want to use to validate your Brimstone membership, without the hunting stamp you can't get in.  Basically meaning that you have two types of memebership - ATV access for everyone and ATV plus hunting access for hunters only.

Speaking as an ATV rider I will not mind giving up some Brimstone riding time as long as:

1. Keep it reasonable - maybe four to six weeks total scattered throughout the seasons.
2. Set up the hunting only dates in advance and publicize those dates.  That will give ATV riders the heads-up to go ride somewhere else.
3. Make some kind of effort to schedule hunting-only times when there is not a big game hunt scheduled on other nearby riding areas (RB)

Just like hunters don't want to have their day ruined by a noisy ATV, many ATVers really don't want to piss off a hunter.

Just a thought.

Nobody will be "denied" access to the area during hunting season.....people bought their land/trail use permit and they have the right to use it 365 days a year.....It wouldn't be fair to "close" it down during hunting season....you paid, you have just as much right to be on the property as the hunters.....what the lease/permit debate is about is to find the best "compromise" for BrimstoneRec./the wildlife/and the hunters.....denying one group or the other access during certain times is not going to happen, everyone must/will co-exist with each other.....the simple facts are how to be as fair as possible to everyone while still being able to "pay the bills".......

[astrunk]

well i think the idea of a lease is an ok idea.but i dont think it would work. because alot of people cant afford the lease.and if it was leased theyre would only be a limited few who could hunt it. and since alot of locals cant afford a lease who would it be leasing it?[/b]

[STAKK]

70 people have registered for this forum......only 16 have cast a vote for this permit/lease poll..........So out of 70 only 16 have a concern for hunting on Brimstone or they would have voted.......this is why the committee wants to lease guys, only a small amount of hunters are voicing their opinions about wanting the permit system, and quite frankly, this small amount of permit voters will not carry alot of weight come voting time with the committee......The number of hunters wanting a permit system is going to have to increase in order for that to happen or a lease will be what happens........SPREAD the word and let the Brimstone hunting committee know whether you want the lease or permit.......

[Jason Jeffers]

Stakk,

This is hardly an accurate voting poll. Most of the hunters in Scott County don't even know this website exists.

What hunter in Scott County would not want a permit only hunt? Most of the hunters I know from the Brimstone area will hunt the same spots they've been hunting for years with or without a permit.

In my opinion it will take a few years and some experimental approaches to get an accurate feel for where this thing will go.


Jason